Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 13 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1204



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally
Re: Lucan the Man...
Re: Many guns II
heretics
Re: TL 14 FGMP, versus a Vargr in Combat-Armo
Hyperrealistic game play (was: FFW players out there?)
Re: Re Gauss Tracer
Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally
Re: Hyperrealistic game play (was: FFW players out there?)
Re: GT:Fusion Thrust (Heplar) Missiles
re: FFW Players Out There?
Re: Heplar Efficiency
Re: Heplar Efficiency
XML data for Traveller
Bye for now!
unsubscribe traveller-digest
Re Vergr and Fusion GUns
HEPlaR vs Thruster Plates
Trav Conversions
Wod/ST to Trav Crossover
RE: Traveller Versions
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1201
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1201
Re: Does anyone play these games?
Re: subsector/sector mapping software

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally

> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:59:45 PST
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
> 
> The thing is, HEPlar, or even a more reasonable fusion rocket only
> requires you to "watch fuel" *closely* if you try doing "absurd" things
> with it. Like making normal space trips longer than a week.

Why's more than a week absurd?  For a 1-G vessel, doing the accel-flip-
decel mission profile,

  d = 2 * (0.5 * a * (t/2)**2)
    = a * t**2 / 4

Which, for a = 10 m/s^2 and t = 1 week = 604800 s, results in a distance
travelled of 914457600000 m, or 914,457,600 km, or roughly 6 AU.  This is
a typical distance for e.g. trips between habitable worlds and inner gas
giants, or from one part of an asteroid belt to another -- which are
surely among the most common in-system trip types.

Even in a 2-G vessel, the trip range only increases to 12 AU, still quite
normal for inner-system-to-nearest-GG trips.  And remember that for some
such you may want or need to keep reserve fuel as well.

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:16:49 -0500 ()
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net>
Subject: Re: Lucan the Man...

>> Someone to go back in time and write it into "official" Traveller canon
>> this way.
>>
>> Rebellion --> Hard Times --> Norris' Long Dawn --> 4th Imperium
>>
>> Oooh. I'm getting the shivers. :-)
>
>Would have taken him a few decades to get the strength up to push through
>Corridor with anything worth talking about when he finished it.

So, a few decades worth of Hard Times. Oooh. ;-)

Tschuess,

Joseph R. Dietrich
yikes@evansville.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:24:14 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Many guns II

Tascelt@aol.com wrote:

> hey Jesse,
>
> You told me your AK was hand crafted by Siberian monks, what gives!?

Only the one true AKs....  All the rest are knock offs.

- --
Evyn...

Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall
Bunches of roses all over my coffin
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall
 Laredo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:26:10 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: heretics

>Of course, not only is all of this not canon, it's directly anti-canon which
>makes me a heretic of the worst sort. ;)

  Nah, you admit your crime, which is the first step. _Real_ heretics
claim TL Z for the Ziru Sirka, and try to prove it as canon :)

  Of course, step two for even mild heresy can be ... traumatic?
(see thread on FGMP's)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:26:16 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: TL 14 FGMP, versus a Vargr in Combat-Armo

>        <Translated from the Vargr, sent by the Vargr known as Goghueghz>

  Or, untranslated:
        <Yip!> <Woof><woof><grr>/...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: Hyperrealistic game play (was: FFW players out there?)

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> >I wonder if this hyper-realism would be fun to play?
> >- --Glenn
> 
> Two words:
> 
> Close Combat.  Microsoft's current series of WW2 games models practically
> everything up to the chance your soldiers will wet themselves instead of
> opening fire.

I love CC, though I have to pick when I play it carefully; the tension
level is insane, and I end up both exhausted and twitchy for an hour after
a game session.

The aspect you'd get in the proposed you-are-an-admiral FFW computer game
that is *not* modeled in CC is being unsure where your own forces are.
I've actually contemplated doing a space game like this for several years
now, and come up with some of the same ideas (e.g., date-stamped position
info) as were suggested here.  Maybe it's finally time to stop
contemplating and start coding. :)

> (There's also Harpoon, but that was a while ago, and YMMV on the "fun"
> part.) 

I loved Harpoon.  But then again, I'm a sucker for naval combat in any
form.

- -- 
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:39:02 -0700
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re Gauss Tracer

William F. Hostman wrote:

> >> So it should pentrate as normal. With a slight chanche of igniting
> >> anything flammable it lodges in (like a kevlar vest :-)
> >
> >Hmmm ... what about gauss weapons: could they have tracer ammo?
>
> They'd need some ignition source... IMTU, for an extra Cr 100, you can add
> a tracer ignition laser to it...

Naw all we need is a flint at the end of the barrell.

- --
Evyn...

Get six jolly cowboys to carry my coffin
Get six pretty maidens to bear up my pall
Bunches of roses all over my coffin
Roses to deaden the clods as they fall
 Laredo

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Spraying near-c-rocks-B-gone liberally

Craig Berry writes:
 
> Why's more than a week absurd?  For a 1-G vessel, doing the accel-flip-
> decel mission profile,
Because by and large you might as well jump?  Because 84 G-hours is 1% of
lightspeed and you're going to have dust grains punching holes in your
ship?  Because any reaction engine capable of a G-week has insane
performance?

Not sure of overall density of interplanetary dust, but a 1 milligram dust
particle at 84 G-hours speed has an energy of 4.5 megajoules with better
focus than any laser, and should be able to punch holes in your average
unarmored craft without difficulty.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:39:43
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Hyperrealistic game play (was: FFW players out there?)

At 11:22 AM 10/13/1999 -0700, you wrote:

>I loved Harpoon.  But then again, I'm a sucker for naval combat in any
>form.

The sudden image of Craig stalking the decks of a British Man-o-War,
shouting to his Lieutenants.. "Mr. Bergstrom, Mr. Kilmer!  You may fire
when ready!"
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

If someone is arrested for jaywalking or littering just
after midnight next New Year's Eve, for at least a minute
or two he will have committed the crime of the century. 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:47:22 +0100
From: John Buston <John.Buston@tesco.net>
Subject: Re: GT:Fusion Thrust (Heplar) Missiles

Thomas Schoene wrote:
> GT Starships is going to extend the design sequence down to at least GTL9.
> I assume there will be GTL9 missiles as well.  But Chris Thrash is taking
> contributions of modules and systems for the book, so you might want to ask
> him if he needs GTL9 missile designs.

I suspect all space interceptor missiles are being (re)designed for GT:Starships
after the recent thread on Advanced Armour (i.e. to remove it). My missile
designs don't use exactly the same design philosophy as used in GT so are
probably unacceptable anyway. I also don't like the idea of losing control of my
own designs and them passing from the public to the private domain (at least not
without serious financial incentives ;-) ).
 
> > Just altering the TLs in GV2 so that the GTL9 & GTL10 fusion rockets are
> > available one TL early in GT would provide a smoother transition in drive
> > performances. 

> I don't think anything like that has been decided, but it's not a bad
> option.  After all, grav stuff comes in way early too.

Also using Liquid Hydrogen rather than water as fuel would make a big
performance increase due to the weight saving, and could be justified as being
more Travelleresque.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:47:40 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: re: FFW Players Out There?

Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU> writes:
>It sounds interesting to me. How about a multiplayer option, with
>"messaging" between players dependent on location of the admirals.
>If both are in the same star system, a real-time chat window is
>enabled. If not, they can send messages that are placed in the
>intelligence network's "information net", eventually to reach the
>intended recipient. I may know my friend Fred planned on taking
>his fleet through Jewell, but I won't know how far he got until either
>I catch up to him, or I meet one of his dispatch boats.
>
>No amount of game programming is impossible to someone who
>doesn't know how to do it. ;-)

And write it in Java, so that we can all play ;-) grin. drool.

Dom

- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:58:03 PDT
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Heplar Efficiency

>From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
>
>If people think Heplar thrusters are too efficient the solution seems
>simple, just increase the fuel consumption for a given thrust. Doubling 
>fuel
>consumption immediately halves the drives efficiency. In any case trying to
>fit 40 GHrs of fuel in some ships can be a real challenge.

The only ships I've actually used HEPlaR drives in are for my (TL10)GURPS 
Space campaign. If you want Traveller-like accelerations, you really can't 
carry more than about 24 hours of fuel (in most cases, you can get by with 
1/2 or 1/3 of that -- enough fuel to go from surface to 100D, then from 100D 
to surface). Interplanetary ships (lighters, SDBs) will need more fuel, of 
course, but since they don't carry jump drives they have the space.

BTW, I think we are talking about reaction mass, not fuel (don't have FF&S 
handy, so I can't recall).

A generous and sadistic GM,

Brandon Cope

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Heplar Efficiency

Brandon Cope writes:
 
> BTW, I think we are talking about reaction mass, not fuel (don't have FF&S 
> handy, so I can't recall).

Based on performance, it appears that HEPlaR thrusters do induce fusion in
their reaction mass, so 'fuel' is correct.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:53:24 +0100
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
Subject: XML data for Traveller

Thanks for those who emailed me details of what they would cover first.
Everyone seems to agree we should look at character details initially, so
that's where I've started. The DTD is well on the way and currently covers
basic information (name, rank, title, UPP) and I am working on adding skills
and a brief homeworld description (tech group - high / middle / low, plus a
free text section).

To meet the XML browser / programme standards I am including object
categories in as much details as I can so that a programme can work on the
DTD structure to produce or interpret the XML data. I'd prefer to wait until
I have a full DTD for characters, but I'm happy to post what I have so
others can work on it with me - if we use it as a standard way of passing on
details then we should all have free access to the code. If anyone wants a
copy, I'll send it by email or post it to the group; meantime, an example of
what the XML looks like follows.

The document is fully valid, well-formed and consistent (XML terms - sorry
for the jargon) has been built with XML Spy and can be viewed with an
XML-capable browser (such as IE5, but not Netscape or Opera as yet).
Homeworld and skills are not complete, so I've not included them in the
example. Also, I'm making a change so that the character descriptions can be
put in as text rather than comments as they are in the example. I've not
included the DTD, since that's obviously a fair bit bigger than the XML
document example.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE Traveller SYSTEM "Traveller.dtd">
<Traveller>
    <!--Example traveller characters using the initial Open Source DTD-->
    <Character>
        <!--A wealthy merchant captain-->
        <Called title="Sir" rank="Captain" name="Harold Tomlinson"/>
        <UPP str="8" dex="B" end="C" int="9" edu="9" soc="B"/>
    </Character>
    <Character>
        <!--A sharp - but not too strong - spy for the Imperium-->
        <Called rank="Colonel" name="Patton (aka Jigger) Harris"/>
        <UPP str="8" dex="B" end="D" int="E" edu="B" soc="8"/>
    </Character>
    <Character>
        <!--And finally a young thief. Let's wish him luck.-->
        <Called name="Deakin Small"/>
        <UPP str="9" dex="D" end="D" int="8" edu="8" soc="4"/>
    </Character>
</Traveller>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 05:31:00 EST
From: "Craig Brain" <cjbrain@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bye for now!

I'm about to return to Australia for a while. I will re-subscribe when I get 
home, but I would like to thank the people that have sent me bits and pieces 
and kept in touch with me while I've been here in PNG. I look forward to 
reading the TML from the comfort of my own home in 36 hrs.

TTFN,

Craig Brain

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 05:34:02 EST
From: "Craig Brain" <cjbrain@hotmail.com>
Subject: unsubscribe traveller-digest

unsubscribe traveller-digest

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:59:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Re Vergr and Fusion GUns

At 05:22 PM 11/10/1999 +1300, you wrote:
>> The TL 14 FGMP, versus a Vargr in Combat-Armor, was ineffective due to not
>> hitting the head. The main shot is reduced quite a bit, and unless you hit
>> the head, you will merely inconvinience a character... I know from
>> experience. (I was using d10's for damage, BTW). The fragments were safely
>> ignored. The Vargr took a total of 7 point blank shots WHILE HE KICKED TO
>> DEATH the zhodani marine in Cbt armor 14 (Stats for the armor were from
>> Striker II).
>
>And of those seven hits the Vargr took, not one knocked him down? He
>never had to make a panic check? That wee doggie must have had an
>awesome Agility and Initiative!
>
Actually, he did make the CUF rolls. More importantly, he had nowhere to
go, as he got caught trying to climb into a ventilation shaft. TNE's
Coolness under fire rules are as badly broken as the damages of weapons
are...

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:05:26 PDT
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com>
Subject: HEPlaR vs Thruster Plates

This debate really comes down to how comfortable you are breaking the laws 
of physics. If you are extremely loathe to do so, use HEPlaRs. If you are 
willing to make sacrifices for game-play, use thruster plates. If you don't 
want to break physic's laws at all, why are you playing Traveller?

Both maneuver drives [1] are scientifically absurd, but HEPlaR _is_ based in 
reality (and hence _marginally_ more realistic). OTOH, thruster plates are 
"more" canon, and fit the Traveller feel better (especially for long time 
players).

In the end, it just comes down to what the GM wants.

A generous and sadistic GM,

Brandon Cope

[1] The thruster plate version that uses the gravity of a planet (or other 
large body) for thrust is no more implausible than other contragravity 
equipment. However, I haven't seen any (official) rules about reducing 
thrust based on how strong a gravity field it's in.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:09:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Trav Conversions

Would the gent(s) who use CORPS to run traveller please send me what ever
they have gotten done in the way of converting? I love CORPS, and I love
the CT/MT Universe, Have grown to despise GURPS, and don't have a good
start point for CORPS Trav....

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:20:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: Wod/ST to Trav Crossover

Due to many requests, what I've got done is posted to my web site.

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:27:08 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:19:07 +0100
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>

>I tried to expalin why
>GURPS skill system didn't feel like a task system to some ex TNE/MT/T4
>players (something that the original poster who prompted David's ire
>actually felt I clarified from his post). David has since claimed that
>GURPS has a such a system. I couldn't find it so am looking forward to
>receiving a Digest with its page reference in.

GURPS doesn't have the task system that MT/TNE/T4 players are used to.
This has been used to claim it "doesn't have a task system" and similar
claims that imply that GURPS is missing  fundamental.  That would be my
like saying MT "doesn't have a skill system" because it doesn't rate skills
on how hard they are and then telling anyone who objected that he was just
getting hung up on nomenclature.

I understand that it isn't what they are used to, but when they
insist on saying "it doesn't have a task system" rather than just
saying it doesn't work like they are used to, you have to wonder
why....
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:30:07 -0400
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1201

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:12:46 +1000
> From: Cory Davis <c.davis@uws.edu.au>
> Subject: battledress and point defence
> 
<snip Intro>
> Anyway they have taken a quite a few hits from HEAT grenades and keep
> asking about point defense for battledress, I was thinking something like a
> back mounted pod turret that sits just above your head with a small PESA
> and low powered(4d) high ROF xlaser with computer control should be able to
> knock out most grenades, missiles and rockets at least as long as the range
> wasn't too short. I don't know about conventional fired projectiles maybe
> low powered only ?
> 
> what does everyone reckon, can it be done, if so how would you run it, or
> do you think its drifting off into scout/commando BD territory ?
> 

I build a 60kJ rainbow laser with ROF 20 for exactly this purpose but
found the power consumption to be too high (particularly for a battle
dress power systems). So my solution was to use a 1mm electromag gun
with heavy auto, that plus 5000 rounds of ammo, a couple of passive
sensors and a targeting computer makes a fine and dandy PD weapon. Total
of about 0.3 cf it becomes the Bowler of doom. See the rules pVE197 for
shooting down missiles.

>  To my way of thinking thats the great strength of plasma/fusion weapons,
> apart from having enough armour there's not much you can do to stop them
> 

	Thermal Superconducting armor helps against the plasma/fusion weapons,
but mostly it just turns into an arms race. My favorite weapon of choice
for over armored targets is a pion gun. All the armor in the world
doesn't help there. 

> I would use the 20mm APFSDSHD disposable railgun (20mm IAAW) that Doug made
> ages ago to crack battledress
> 

<snip slang comments>
> 
> Cory
> 
- -- 
	Thomas Jones-Low
	tjoneslo@together.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:00:17 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1201

Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:47:14 -0400 (EDT), "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>

The central point here is....
>The task system, once understood, becomes a key to unlocking the game from
>lists of modifiers or arbitrary modifiers.

I see it as taking a flexible system of modifiers and locking it up
into a more rigid framework.  Now I'm sure everyone has their own
preferences, but that is _all_ it is, a preference.   GURPS is in
no way inferior to MT, it is just _different_ with its own faults
and avantages....

>I loan new players a photocopy of the Player's
>Guide to Tasks from the Player's Manual... 1 page, and it tells them what
>they need to roll, and how to break down the code used in play.

An issue of presentation.  You could make a similar table for GURPS.

[on other specifics...]
>>Compare the following:
>>
>>  To make yourself understood on the net:
>>  Formidable, Liaison, 5 min (fateful, unskilled OK)
>>  [David rolls 6 on 2D, adds his Liaison-1 and compares with 15. Oops!]
>>
>>and
>>
>>  GM: "Roll against Diplomacy at -6."
>>  [John subtracts 6 from his Diplomacy-9 and compares with a 3D roll of
>>   12. Rats!]
>>  GM: "There's a flamewar a-brewing..."

>>The only difference I can see is that MT has a convenient shorthand for
>>writing down the task definition. Since (like most non-combat tasks)
>>this probably wasn't defined in a supplement somewhere, that doesn't
>>seem a vital feature. The MT Referee probably thought something like "I
>>don't rate his chances - let's make it a Formidable task", while the
>>GURPS GM thought "wow, that's tricky - let's give him a -6".

>One of the things is that the task system is a VERY convenient shorthand...

Actually, it is not that short, MT uses more space delinating
how hard a skill is in a certain situation than GURPS books do.
The "routine, difficult, etc." is slightly easier to remember,
but also locks you into fixed increments.  This is all generally
trivial.  I, and other, have come up with descriptive labels.  They
don't attract much interest becuase it just isn't a big deal to
most.

Yes, the MT task system has some nice things about it.  But it
is hardly some advanced mechanic that GURPS is only an "evoulutionary
step toward" or some such other bunk.

>And because the basic interpersonal tasks are listed as well, including the
>effects on reactions, the system had a broad repetoire of some 40
>predefined non-combat tasks, in a consistant, memorable, mnemonic based
>setup.

An GURPS gives a large number of modifiers for non-combat situations
(though in GURPS these are often dependant on another roll, or rating,
an advantage of not using fixed labels).  I haven't counted how many,
and the GURPS books don't seek to set them off in little spaces (a
debatable use of limited space), but I would be surprised if their
weren't _well_ over forty.  OTOH, some of those apply to situations
which won't come up in Traveller (like how hard it is to ride a
war horse without holding the reins) so the situations is muddy.

>Lacking appropriate tools? In GURPS, the modifier may vary from skill to
>skill; in MT, increase difficluty 1 step.

No.  The modifier doesn't vary.  You have the skill you are suppose
to use and the modifier.  If you can convince the GM to allow you
to substitute a new skill, the modifier won't change.

>seldom clearly presented modifiers presented throughout GURPS...

Yes, I will agree they are clearly presented in MT.  This is just
an issue of presentation.  (You could do something similar in
GURPS where you present the task, the skill one should use for it,
and the modifier and ofset them in spaces in the text)

>GURPS lacks a consistant effect of Skill on Time Taken. 2300 and MT had a
>consistant system. TNE dropped the time roll.

Yeah, this _can_ be of some use.  They also are a double edged sword
(they give a rigid system that doesn't, IMO, reflect real life well),
but there are there if they need them.  A long cry, however, from
saying that GURPS doesn't have task system (just as much as saying
MT doesn't have a skill system because there is not rating of how
hard skills are or how you progress along a learning curve).

>Yes, I remember that Katana defaults to Broadsword-2. But I can't remember
>the modifier for defaulting from Dex to either Broadsword or Katana, nor
>the penalty for Physics defaulting from IQ

Actually, MT is lacking consistent system of being able to use one
skill with another.  It allows you to substitute one skill for another
in specific tasks, but outside of that you are left hanging and you
have to remember how skills substitute in each individual task.  GURPS
tells you that Shortsword defaults to Broadsword at a -2 for _all_
applications.  This is actually easier to remember in GURPS, its
just that GURPS has an expanded system for this sort of thing
comared to MT.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:08:32 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Does anyone play these games?

At 12:32 AM 10/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
>On 10/11/99 at 02:08 PM,  "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
said:
>
>>Own them all, but have only played AHL.  Since I don't have a group
I
>>don't actually play the game now. <sigh>  how did I get started on
>>this self-pity thing again?  Sorry.
>
>I understand exactly how you feel.  If I wasn't in the PBEM
>Traveller games I wouldn't be playing either.  I guess we just have
>to find our games where and how we can. 

	Waitaminit! You mean you can actually *play* Traveller instead of
just reading about it? ... wow, what a concept! You really are a
heretic!

- -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
   religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
   abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the
   right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
   the Government for a redress of grievances. 
   -- Amendment I, US Constitution

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:15:26 -0600
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: subsector/sector mapping software

At 08:47 AM 10/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
>You will need both Perl and the Perl/Tk extension (both freely available
>at www.perl.com/CPAN). My stuff is all Perl code, and you are welcome to
>hack away. It has a non-user interface part and the Tk part as separate
>pieces, so you could roll your own user interface. My first cut at a user
>interface (before I got into Tk) was based on a command line. For pictures,
>such as subsector maps, I generated GIFs and popped up an image viewer.
>I may dig that up and package it into the bundle as well.

	Where's this stuff again? I tried your website below, and found no
links to it ...

>I haven't had a chance to poke around yet...
>
>yours,
>Michael
>-- 
>Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
>herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
>Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
>                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/
>
>

- -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
   religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
   abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the
   right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
   the Government for a redress of grievances. 
   -- Amendment I, US Constitution

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1204
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